Sunday, December 9, 2007

Runny Noses are NOT Emergencies

According to Wikipedia, the Emergency Room is a department that “provides initial treatment to patients with a broad spectrum of illnesses and injuries, some of which may be life-threatening and require immediate attention.” The important part of that sentence is the last six words.

Life-threatening and require immediate attention. This describes an acute condition: something extremely serious and critical but that is brief and severe. A chronic condition, on the other hand is one of long duration, typically described medically as one that has existed for six months or more.

Now, understand that chronic conditions can have acute exacerbations: asthma, sickle cell disease, COPD, CHF, among others. We treat these in the ED, and they’re considered emergencies.

What we don’t (or shouldn’t have to) treat in the ER: Colds. Bug bites. We won’t immunize your kids. No, that small laceration does not need stitches.

It’s perfectly ok to come to the ER if you have any doubts about your condition. But once you’re here, you need to trust our judgment. Of course there are cases when people who originally were not thought to be acutely sick became critically ill in a waiting room, as far as I’m aware they’re the exception rather than the rule.

When I tell you in triage that you (or your loved one) is currently in no danger of loss of life or limb at the present time, that while I understand you are feeling badly, but that there are people who are more ill than you and who will be seen before you, you need to accept it. Please know we’re keeping an eye on you as you wait to be called. We’re aware you’re here. Please don’t say, “But HOW DO YOU KNOW nothing’s wrong? I could be DYING right now!” (I’m SO tempted at these times to explain that we’re ALL dying, just very slowly. I’m also tempted to say, “Because it says RN after my name,” and point to my ID badge.)

If you’re an otherwise healthy 25-year-old man, and your initial complaint is of nasal congestion, fever, body aches, and cough for ONE DAY...you probably should not be in the ED. This is NOT life-threatening and does not require immediate attention. You should be at home, drinking NyQuil and hanging out on the couch. You’re sick. It sucks. Have some soup, have some orange juice, have some ibuprofen, take a nap, watch some TV. If you don’t feel better in a couple of days, call your doctor. Or go to a clinic. In the ED, we don’t have soup, we rarely have OJ, we don’t have comfortable beds, and we don’t have TV. (Though that’s about to change...ugh...)

If you’ve been to three dermatologists over the last six months to try to figure out what that gross rash is on your hands and arms, and they’ve given you steroids and creams and pills and they’re not working, and the rash doesn’t hurt and it’s not infected, and it’s not really bothering you except that it looks yucky and you really would like to know what it is...you probably should not be in the ED. Seriously, dude. You’ve seen SPECIALISTS. We’re just gonna give you a referral to a SPECIALIST.

If you’re a 65-year-old overweight man with a history of heart attack and coronary artery disease, and you come in and sit in my triage chair and are puffing like a locomotive, and your lips are a little blue, and your primary complaint is, “my feet and legs are all swollen up, and I can’t seem to catch my breath even when I’m taking it easy” and your heart rate is 120 and your blood pressure is not so great and your lungs sound like a famous breakfast cereal, then DING DING DING!! You WIN! You are having an emergency and you get to be taken back to a bed.

21 comments:

Nurse K said...

Had a bounceback viral sore throat the other day...Came back the day after the first visit because it "still hurt".

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This, of course, was the 3rd overall day of the sore throat. How is it that adults haven't figured out that viruses don't magically clear up in a day? This person had insurance and a job too!

GuitarGirlRN said...

We had a bounce back of a grown woman with chicken pox. She came into a busy, crowded waiting room, shedding virus as she went, because she was concerned that we had misdiagnosed her--that she didn't have chicken pox, that she had MRSA, because she still felt so sick.

I had to isolate her long enough to get the doctor to tell her no, it's really the chicken pox, and you're going to feel bad for about a week. Go home and take an oatmeal bath.

BillyBob said...

I took my 22 year old daughter to a level one trauma center (Swedish medical center, Engelwood, Colorado)with unexplained abdominal pain and vomiting. After the whole ct scan, we dont see anything, this is probably not anything to worry about speech, we went home, returned 24 hours later with a much sicker daughter, they did the whole ct thing again, and despite the fact she was tachy, and had a 103 fever, AND had hematemisis, they repeated the go home , follow up with your own doctor speech, but we didn't budge. We stomped our feet, said hell no, you admit her, and guess what, exception or not, she had a small bowel resection because
5 feet of her small intestines had become gangreneous. No, you see, you all cannot be trusted, not ever again. I tell EVERYONE who will listen this story. Anyone who has a brain will trust their instincts more than a wet behind the ears two year resident who has seen it all, and done it all.

noisejoke said...

billybob - how does a sick liver have a daughter?

Anyway, you sure seem to have some experience and expertise dealing with the medical community. I admire and apppreciate that. Me? I have little of either. However, I just stumbled upon this blog and your comment. And I can't help but feel you have some other agenda, maybe a chip on your shoulder - if livers have shoulders.

Could you attempt to be honest and perhaps a bit more objective and give some background to this situation? Was your daughter's doctor contacted first? How many days was she sick before you brought her to the ER? Is there an ER nearby that isn't Trauma 1, and possibly dealing with gunshot wounds and car crashes?

A little clarity and attempted objectivity might strengthen your argument. So far, all I know is ERs are overcrowded, understaffed and that even the best people (including the one you're housed in) can make mistakes.

DisappearingJohn said...

Just wait... We just opened a brand new, state of the art ED; every room has a flat screen TV!!! (with basic cable!)

Yep, might as well advertise, I think we're busier than Motel6!

GuitarGirlRN said...

Ugh, the flat-screen tvs just started getting installed. Every day a few more beds have tvs. It's really bad.

girlvet said...

Wow flat screen tvs - unbelieveable! I'm coming to your ER!

girlvet said...

Wow flat screen tvs - unbelieveable! I'm coming to your ER!

scalpel said...

22 year olds suffer from gangrenous bowel so often that every young woman with abdominal pain must be admitted for exploratory surgery just in case.

Especially when the parents of these adult woman stomp their feet and say "hell no, you admit her!" Because then we know that they really mean business, and that gangrenous bowel is a near certainty.

whitecap nurse said...

No, I'm sorry y'all. Billybob is absolutely right. If one of my patients had those symptoms on a 24 hour return, I'd be jumping up and down right next to the parents, demanding admission. Sometimes you don't know WHAT is wrong but you sure as heck know SOMETHING is not right.

noisejoke said...

I still would like to read what they did about it, BEFORE they went to an ER, and in between visits.

GuitarGirlRN said...

Holy crap, I can't believe we're still even talking about this. Seriously.

BillyBob said...

First, I cannot figure out how to have two profiles in Blogger, when I do, I'll have one for me, Bobby, and one for my liver Billybob.Obviously this is me talking. My daughter got sick at dinner time on a Friday night,we took her to the ER the next afternoon. She spent 12 hours in there and we dropped her off at her home at 3:00am Sunday. Trusting that she had a benign condition, and long before I found out how wrong doctors can be, we hoped she would get some sleep and things would get better. Throughout the next day, we kept in touch by phone.
She was throwing up, and couldn't keep percocet or phenergan down, we went to her house at around 2:00, and got her back into the ER at 3:00 pm. Another 12 hour stint, and I'm not kidding, the attending said that they were going to discharge her.We didn't really stomp our feet, no what really happened is we begged for our daughter's life. Because if they had not began large amounts of IV antibiotics, she would have died in 24 more hours.And she was already dehydrated, she was vomiting every 3 minutes.She couldnt hold anything down. No fluid, no pain meds, no anti nausea drug. I get guitar rn's overall point, and cant help wonder what's the point? We go to the ER when there is no other alternative. When we are scared. We want our loved one admitted when it's clear to everyone that they cant stay hydrated, or are in so much pain, they cant stop crying, and screaching. In retrospect her CT has two obvious adhesions from her having had a rouen y gastric bypass when she was 18. They went in laproscopic on Wednsday night, and her surgery lasted over 8 hours, and she developed pulmonary embolisms from multiple blood clots while recovering. Just reading this blog, I wonder why Guitar girl RN is an RN. It just sounds like you hate your job. I feel bad for you. And Scalpel, touche', you really got me there.You dont need a scaplel for incisions, your words cut deep. Merry Christmas.

GuitarGirlRN said...

DUDE

You're a troll, so I'm not going to bother past this one point:

Did it ever occur to you that your daughter didn't get proper care because the ER was clogged with people with sniffles who were getting complete workups for their cold and flu symptoms, taking time and resources away from your truly sick daughter?

Seriously. We're on the same side here, essentially. Did you actually BOTHER to read the post?

And now, fuck off.

GuitarGirlRN said...

One sec, tho--before you fuck off, are you aware that one risk of your daughter's Rouen Y gastric bypass is poor views of internal organs? So even if she had a CT scan or endoscopy, there might not be good visualization of her organs because of her procedure, and this could hamper her correct diagnosis and treatment?

Did you let the docs know about her previous surgical history?

Away with you, troll!

noisejoke said...

I'm still tawking, yo lady!

So, Billybob - the person who doesn't get that we KNOW he's not a liver in real life - says, "I get guitar rn's overall point, and cant help wonder what's the point?" Uh, some clear thinking and writing there, son.

The point? People come into ERs for NO reason, or at best for sniffles. Seems your kid had a serious thing going on due to a previous condition. Why are you even responding to this post? You really need to hitch it (get it? hitching post?) to that chip perched precariously on your skinny shoulder? Metaphor number three, yobbo: you have no dog in this hunt.

And I'll further back GuitargirlRN by stating that her venting here, in HER blog, frequently and in this case specifically, involves complaints that ARE NOT emergent. This, obviously, would hasten and improve care to patients like your daughter.

But, again, you didn't actually READ and THINK about her post, huh?

BillyBob said...

{{It’s perfectly ok to come to the ER if you have any doubts about your condition. But once you’re here, you need to trust our judgment.}}Those are your words. MY point is that if I had, I would have a DEAD daughter. Now, I will, as you demanded, you heartless bitch, fuck off.

noisejoke said...

Again, Billybob avoids the points.

Did you call your daughter's GP? Did you discuss her surgery with the ER? Did you read the post and note where the blogger talks about sniffles, and EMERGENT issues.

Yes, BB's daughter's issue seems emergent. The chip on his shoulder and his intellectual dishonesty is long standing.

BillyBob said...

Not emergent according to the attending pyhsician both of those nights. She had just quit college to come home because I got sick, and she had no GP yet, It was a Saturday, but I got the lecture that "you need to trust us." That was the point that triggered a response from me. That IS the point. We cant go back and re write the past. The attitude of guitar girl RN is the one that KILLS people in the Er's. What I am stupid, and dont klnow that a runny nose isn't an emergency?Sure the 25 yr old man shouldnt be in the ER. I agree.But we are at your mercy. This is the real scary part for me. Hidden(you not me, you can see my face, town, videos,family pictures etc) way back here in blogger land, you get to show your true colors. Call people trolls, say shoo,fuck off, . In real life,I take it , and respond politely when I meet your type in the ER in real life, but here in blogger land, it is far too tempting to stay shut up. I told you the story.

GuitarGirlRN said...

Oy freaking VEH!

Billybob. I am not and was not the nurse or the doctor in charge of the management (or mismanagement) of your daughter's awful heath problem. She didn't come in to my ER. (Believe me, I would have remembered if that were the case!) I'm sorry that you and your family went through such a trying and scary time. I will not be the scapegoat for all of your fears and anger. I'm sorry you and your family felt so marginalized by the people who took care of her. And I am aware that you feel you need someone to blame for this, so if you must, blame the actual people who mismanaged her case. Not me. And if you hate me and my blog so much, feel free to never read it again.

BillyBob said...

First I don't hate you. Second I dont hate your blog, third I was just commenting on something that stuck in my craw a little. Lets just drop it, OK? I take back calling you a bitch.I have a chip. Yes. It's there. Intellectual dishonesty, Noise joke? sorry, I didnt go to college, and I dont know what you mean. it's over my head.I'm distrustful of doctors. I've spent too much time in and out of the hospital in the last two years.